Going Deep with Music Marketing and Management – Interview with Thomas Gerbrands

Today, we are taking the dive with Management and Marketing in Music! This is the perfect ‘tips’ and ‘insider info’ for those coming up, as much as those already established. Thomas Gerbrands is the manager of SHOOK (you may know SHOOK from his legendary Synth Funk style, quirky videos, or his Sample Pack “Shook Synth Funk” we just released HERE). THOMAS IS ALSO THE OWNER OF AN AGENCY THAT FOCUSES ON MARKETING & MANAGMENT IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. So, when it comes to killing two birds with one stone, Thomas is the perfect person to speak about both Marketing and Music Management in the modern music world.

Here we go! Welcome to the depth’s of Black Octopus’ Going Deep with Thomas Gerbrands!

BOS: Give me a day-to-day process of being an Artist manager. How does it work and what are you up to ‘behind the scenes’? 

Thomas: In essence I see my work as guiding the artist towards its goal. So, it is my job to convert the dreams of the artist into achievable goals and steps. Besides this, I need to ensure we move forward and keep track of the business side of things. In most cases I see myself as the personal assistant of the artist. Not the other way around. I do see this happen a lot. Situations where artists become sort of enslaved to companies and targets of managers. But, the core of music is in the end an artistic process of growth and adventure. To make it sustainable, it is essential to develop a second side and monetise the artistic process. This is where I come in. I become the gatekeeper of the artist’s legacy and assets.

Whether this is from a marketing perspective (artist profile) or royalty perspective (song catalog); it is the same. Business is business. And artists and music can be monetised in many ways. Both assets need to be nurtured and protected. And in most cases, creative people lack the organisation skills and sense of business. You just need an expert to take you there, show you the way and protect you when necessary. That is [my job].

For me, [it is] a good match between an artist and its manager when we complement each other. We both have something the other one does not, and that is why [SHOOK and I] make an excellent team.

BOS: Since you are the manager for one of our highest selling artist-made sample packs with “SHOOK” Synth Funk, can you shed some light on how it is to work with him? How does this reflect the success of his work as a musician and now, a sample pack sound designer?

Thomas: We receive many inquiries for Shook’s work from a strong diversity of industries, and different regions like the US and China. But also entirely different industries like film and commercials as well as journalists and gaming. From the business side, I think it is important not to bet on one horse. As I said, music can be monetised in many ways. Therefore I am always investigating new opportunities. Besides this there is the artistic challenge for Shook as an artist. Not all projects have to generate revenue. Sometimes, if Shook really wants to be part of a project, we take the gamble, just because Shook wants to have the challenge. It is about a true admiration for the creation process. It is about challenging oneself to become a better producer and composer. And it is about constantly evolving into new ways and ensuring your profile will not become that of a “one-trick pony”.

As you can see in the live industry now, due to COVID-19, many musicians have difficult times. It is comparable when vinyl merged into CD and consumers started illegally downloading that digital data. It shows that divide and conquer still is of the highest value. As we now know the virus can kill the entire industry of live events, it is not so complex to consider that a digital virus can kill an entire streaming industry. Who knows? That’s why I always discuss with Shook what challenges we can take and which new ways and forms we can try. We are willing to try everything. Our purpose is to either get exposure towards a new community, fulfill an artistic challenge, or simply make a bit of money to feed Shook’s cat Jagger! The adventure of sample packs was for me quite interesting. As I met one of your associates during a Splice/Kobalt party during Amsterdam Dance Event, I figured that sample packs might be the replacement for downloads and vinyl/CD sales we’ve seen declining in the last decade. I always thought that streaming was the replacement, but it is a totally different model. Therefore I always consider that my assumption can be wrong. To find that out we need to try different things, and [now] here we are! CHECK OUT SHOOKS SAMPLE PACK HERE

BOS: Branding and Marketing with artists has become even more important in modern times than ever before! As a marketing professional with your marketing company, how do you approach this?

Thomas: As I run my own agency in music, marketing and management, I see branding and marketing as two different things. For me branding in relation to artists is about the artist profile. It is about positioning the artist as a brand. As a way or form music lovers [that] can interpret the artist. It has much to do with the tone of voice and posts on social media. I think [thats why] it becomes important to build something over time that connects to your fans. It is not about pleasing all fans, because some will like your style and some don’t. In the core of this type of branding it is about authenticity and authority. When explaining authenticity I always remember one lesson from drama class that I had in high school: The teacher explained that when you play a character or role, it is best not to use weird voices. Just use your own voice, she said. Otherwise it will be very complex to maintain this role on stage. I always remembered that and converted it to a branding approach.

In essence everything you see online is staged. Even the real tearjerkers and truthful stuff you see. It is all a way to manipulate your thoughts and emotionally connect you to the performer. Therefore I believe that as an artist you have a responsibility: It is not only about you. It is also about your fans. Show them the most authentic you, then you do not need to worry about being honest. It is just what you are, or what you want to be.

As mentioned, marketing is different than branding. Marketing for me, means investing one dollar to get two dollars out of it. Marketing is data-driven and is more about analysing revenue and investments to optimise the performance of the injection of capital, time, and human resources [and how it’s perceived]. It is a totally different ball-game compared to branding for an artist. So, long story short? Branding is about positioning the artist profile and making the connection with the audience. Marketing is about selling the assets and optimise the return on investment.

 

BOS: What are some tips and tricks you can give to the readers or up-and-coming producers or artists wanting to market themselves?

Thomas: Well, all ways lead to Rome. That would be my first one. This is attached to another one, that there is no magic formula. This would be my second one.

Stop believing there is a magic formula or a hidden algorithm that will make you a success. This is externalising your goals and make it out of your control, and hidden in the mist. As I said, all ways lead to Rome. This means that you have to find out what works for you! If that is through a record label, do it. If that is by doing everything yourself, do it! If that is by investing all your time on TikTok making weird dance moves and lip-syncing to it, do it! If that means you invest your time in creating source content for others, like in sample packs, then do it.

If it works for you, then it works. It is important that instant success has much to do with luck. Have you noticed that many of the chosen few that are so talented to break-through by 16 years old, most of the time die by 27? Why is that? Because they are unhappy.

That is why successful people are so easily hooked to drugs. They are unhappy. That is because they implemented the wrong metrics in life [with the wrong focus or demands]. Life is not about money just as much as success is not about money. The thing with money is that you will never have enough. And there will always be a neighbour or someone down the street having more. So, if making money becomes the most important thing in your life, then that is a recipe for destruction. This does not mean money is not important, and you can just do what you want in that regard, but it means you have to be responsible for your career and take steps in a balanced matter [in a healthy way]. Weighting the artistic challenge with the potential revenue is one of those ways. Marketing at its finest!

BOS: We saw that Shook had his music played in outer space by an astronaut! That is INSANE! I am guessing this kind of ‘marketing’ is self-given as a powerhouse way to achieve some following. What other ways has Shook been able to achieve the stardom and respect he has? 

Thomas: The most important part of Shook’s ability to work completely independent is because he nurtured his talent. He went to school to explore and widen his talent to enter the professional market. Besides this, he has been working on this independent status for over a decade! So, it is not only about talent, it is about dedication and devotion. It is about persistence and the ability to overcome rejection, because that is even more essential. You can see in today’s industry, many people with talent are not making it, while people without much talent are becoming superstars. You have to question yourself who is the smartest and best equipped person to reach such a goal. It is important to consider that the goal of Shook has never been true stardom. Our goal is to build a sustainable business with the creative work and intellectual property of Shook. It is about challenging yourself as a musician and growing as an artist.

With such an amazing achievement as becoming part of a NASA project and the song “Always” being played in the ISS, is not directly linked to one action. It is derived from a cumulation of actions that make Shook as an artist. Such a success is simply a by-product of making the right decisions for over a decade. What we always try to do to the best of our ability is seek ways to explore audio creation. We are not only musicians and producers, but also sound engineers and artists. We are always looking for new adventures and ways to explore Shook’s talent and find new revenue streams to keep it sustainable. With that said, we are always keen on who we work with and what the outcome is.

We truly believe that we constantly redefine ourselves as artists and entrepreneurs, we widen our view and explore opportunities adjusted to today’s technical developments.

BOS: How did you start getting into the music industry and what has your life been like through it all? 

Thomas: I started as a producer myself. Later I found a job in marketing music technology and at some point in my life, I had to choose a direction as my nightlife interfered with my day job. I chose my day job and eventually expanded that to setting up my agency for music, marketing and management. It provides me with the opportunity to work with artists like Shook, but also more on the publishing side with songwriters. The majority of my work is with international clients in the field of music technology and music education. For me. [I approach it] the same as for Shook. I would never limit myself to one-trick and constantly repeating that. For me that is just as insane as a hamster running in a wheel.

BOS: If there was one thing you could change about the music industry what would it be? 

Thomas: Bureaucracy! I would love to change the way the royalty system and intellectual property works. For me, it has become an industry upon itself that has nothing to do with creating music.  It has a way to scam creators and dilute musicians into contracts and partnerships that are entirely dysfunctional. That is why I believe many creative people are fulfilling a need in other forms than music, slowly but firmly decreasing the artistic outcome of the form.

BOS: If there is one thing you love about the music industry what would it be? 

Thomas: Technology! Music and technology go hand in hand. I love the technology that comes from musical instruments and the technology that offers the exposure through all kinds of forms like social media, streaming, films and gaming.

BOS: Do you feel marketing is just as (or even more so) important than the music is these days? I have heard often that music will become “80% visual” in the coming years and moving forward. What are your thoughts on this?

Thomas: Well, there are two things really important in the way we consume audio. It is the evolution of technology and the marketing hypes. For me music is music. In its essence, it is more than sufficient as entertaining value and as artistic adventure. In my short time here on this earth I’ve seen music moving from LP to cassette, passing by MTV, CD and piracy into the streaming age and today’s collapse for live music due to COVID-19. I do believe technology takes the way we consume audio by its hand. It also strongly influences the way the next generation consumes and creates. I suspect that the forms and styles will change even more rapidly. What I do see now is that streaming platforms are quite a boring experience. If I compare it to collecting LP’s and creating artwork, it was totally different. From that expectation I think that the rights owners, like the business people who actually own the music (not the artists), will always seek for new ways to monetise their assets. To actually make that happen they need creative artists and also developers. That is why I think the biggest change in the music industry will come from coding in the digital domain.

To answer your question directly, I do think music will become a more wide digital experience, in which direction this will go I am not sure. But, I am not really impressed by AR/VR at this point. I also do not think that gaming will do the trick [as it is now]. What I do believe, is that live music is trying to find new ways and forms. I think that there will be the game-changer in this respect in upcoming years.

BOS: How has Covid affected your part of the industry? Have you noticed any changes or approaches?

Thomas: As said before, COVID-19 has had a tremendous effect, especially on live music. What I see is that many artists used recorded music to promote their live shows. So, they gave away these valuable assets to make it on stage. I do see many of them realising that they might want to reconsider this approach and look into the value of recorded music and its ways to generate revenue. Plus artists realising that they need to balance their revenue streams to ensure they do not rely [entirely] on one source. COVID-19 affects us all, and our business’. For me it just means that we need to work harder and find other ways to convert a given situation into a profitable and fruitful opportunity. I do not control such things as COVID-19. Nor am I willing to blame others for the situation as it arises. Nor do I want to rely fully on my government to take care of me. So, the solution is – as always – to accept reality as it is and make the best out of it. There are many opportunities to monetise music, even in the live domain.

BOS: If you could say one thing to the up and coming producers and artists reading this; what would it be? 

Thomas: Stop comparing your inside with other peoples outside.

 

Thank you HUGELY to Thomas; and also the amazing work from SHOOK on his latest sample pack out now, here on Black Octopus Sound – such a powerhouse team to work with!

Stay tuned er’ybody; more Going Deep coming soon!